Curse

Inner Salbat · Sep 08, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

A competetive game should never, never rely on the builds used. It should rely on the skill levels of players and not build vs. build, which forces you to take up more bar space and end up being successful or unsuccessful against X, Y or Z. Now, looking into that, you'll see that opening skill slots through making the meta less "Bring X skill please" will actually include more variation through opening skill slots.

And that is why I don't PvP if I wanted a game of lotto I would by a lotto ticket I've got just as much chance at winning division 1 as I have winning a match in GW, okay that a massive over exaduration but still.

I PvE because my chances of obtaining my goals are much higher the rewards are subjectively more immediate, right now at this exact moment I'm standing in Drakkar Lake watching the patrols calculating my best chance to clear the frozen lake in hm, which mobs I can pull out and to where, etc.

If the argument is that 7 heros would over power PvP then the solution is simple they shouldn't be in PvP in the first place or they should rename it too, PvPvE.

JDRyder · Sep 08, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

By keeping these ignorant, selfish, and unhealthy players out of our PUGs.

This is still according to you, by the way.

according to you, they dont Pug now, or people can just not be dick heads to others.

Powermaster · Sep 08, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

If anet adds 7 heros ppl will most likely buy GW2 with more excitement.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 08, 2008, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

And that is why I don't PvP if I wanted a game of lotto I would by a lotto ticket I've got just as much chance at winning division 1 as I have winning a match in GW, okay that a massive over exaduration but still.

The fact that build not individual skill is what determines who wins and loses in GW, with each match basically a game of paper-scissors-rock, is why I don't PvP.
I don't mind PvP, my background is as a competitive FPS gamer, but the skill in GW PvP is mainly the skill of making builds, not the skill in using them.

Yeah, there's some amount of tactics involved too, but if your build is wrong you're screwed no matter how skilled you are, and that just rubs me the wrong way.

I really don't see what this has to do with 7 heroes, though. If people don't want 7-hero-teams in PvP then ban hero teams from entering, problem solved.

Avarre · Sep 08, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

but the skill in GW PvP is mainly the skill of making builds, not the skill in using them.

I do not think you know what you are talking about.

There's a reason why good guilds continue to perform at high standards.
There's a reason why scrubs who copy builds never get anywhere.

Gimmicks might take people by surprise, but it's the players that know how to run the builds they use that actually win. Those that win might pull out gimmicks, but the vast majority of their success isn't going to be from buildwars'ing people out.

Limu Tolkki · Sep 08, 2008, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Would have been cool when doing HM stuff etc. Atm i dont find this necessary tho i dont say it would be bad. It's basically same than 2ppl and 6 heros, anyone finds that imba? But putting ppl to play with 4 nubcake henches fails. Especially now when we have a lot heros to choose but can only use 3 of them.

rexalex · Sep 08, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I dont like to ruin other players' fun so i dont vanquish at all...
I tried but its bad if after an hour i have to leave (reasons many... wife for example..

)
With henchies it doesnt work well.
My only chance is 7heroes....

Inner Salbat · Sep 08, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexalex

I dont like to ruin other players' fun so i dont vanquish at all...
I tried but its bad if after an hour i have to leave (reasons many... wife for example..

)
With henchies it doesnt work well.
My only chance is 7heroes....

It does work you've got to be determined and realize when certain consumable items are going to be needed to over power the insanity that exists while vanquishing, however you run into problems when you can't change there build to be more effective, basically running out of skill slots for your party.

Still doable but it's not nearly as fun as the idea of gearing your entire party of 7 heros to do it.

I've had to buy consumable items quite often, often enough to program a script to buy the materials while I do something else, "AutoHotKey" ftw.

Damian979 · Sep 08, 2008, 01:09 PM // 13:09

We all know you can't stand for someone else to get the last word so I'll keep this short. That way you can get right to your snappy reply to let you feel like you "wun teh argumenz".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

A competetive game should never, never rely on the builds used. It should rely on the skill levels of players and not build vs. build,

[mending][frenzy][healing signet] and starter weapons for everyone then. Now that's balance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I have absolutely nothing left to say to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

C-spacing for victory in all cases is not exciting play, champ.

No that's actually called noob play. Don't see where c-spacing was actually anywhere in my post though champ.

R.Shayne · Sep 08, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

In the hopes of getting a celestial compass I joined a UW pug to see if it was faster then going by myself with six heroes.

I guess it was faster, got to the sixth quest and people started leaving. There was no reason to leave, we were doing ok, not a record breaking time, but what I would consider average time (and yes the one W/Mo was running a wammo build).

Saying we want seven heroes because we don't pug is a failed argument. We want seven heroes because we have tried pugs. I have resigned myself to doing stuff only with guild members or with six heroes (an option I have that many do not) because I am tired of pugs that only waste my gaming time which is limited by real life.

Inner Salbat · Sep 08, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

[mending][frenzy][healing signet] and starter weapons for everyone then. Now that's balance.

Nope people could put more attribute points in one or the other and it would be an imbalance

~ sarcasm aside ~

True balance is a collection of skills that can combat each other in different ways yet still though skill allows the team with the most skill at using what they have to win in the end but.. regardless of the losing team losing they still had a chance to win this is not the case with Guild Wars.

Skill in Guild Wars is highly speculative anyway because it's an internet game and your subject to ping times which means the out come could likely be entire not based on skill but because one team has more players with better ping times to the server.

Avarre · Sep 08, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

No that's actually called noob play. Don't see where c-spacing was actually anywhere in my post though champ.

It's implied. You don't really need to do anything else in order to win, not with the quality of skills available. Go afk or bash random keys with flagged H/H? Still works most of the time.

We disagree on the idea of boring gameplay - to me, being able to autowin is boring gameplay, while having some level of balanced skills at least adds a degree of thought. Yeah, you can remove or not run the ridiculous skills, but in that case, why bother having them? Some of them are practically on the level of developer-promoted cheat codes.

At this rate, balance is nearly impossible anyways, there are just too many skills and professions and mechanics. It is possible to get very close to balanced, to a degree that player adaptation can make up for any slight issues, but for that the game would need to be more manageable in size.

Inner Salbat · Sep 08, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

It's implied. You don't really need to do anything else in order to win, not with the quality of skills available. Go afk or bash random keys with flagged H/H? Still works most of the time.

That maybe entirely dependent on what class you are playing, as a monk? you have zero chance to afk, you have to be on your game 80% of the time any lapse of judgment or distraction and it's back to the resurrection shrine for you, and god forbid that you happen to spawn at the shrine the enemy happens to be camping because you made an error in judgment call when pulling the mob in the first place, that has happen on rare moments from time to time, the last time was in Bjora Marches with the Stone Summit, 1 bad pull that was it over done with back to the outpost.

Avarre · Sep 08, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

As a monk in PvE you have to mash healing skills and make red bars go up. It's not exactly high-skill play. Some monks are better and understand concepts like preprotting and spotting targets, but the necessity for it really isn't there, which is a shame.

Kenagalaz · Sep 08, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That maybe entirely dependent on what class you are playing, as a monk? you have zero chance to afk, you have to be on your game 80% of the time any lapse of judgment or distraction and it's back to the resurrection shrine for you, and god forbid that you happen to spawn at the shrine the enemy happens to be camping because you made an error in judgment call when pulling the mob in the first place, that has happen on rare moments from time to time, the last time was in Bjora Marches with the Stone Summit, 1 bad pull that was it over done with back to the outpost.

that's not entirely true, I beat all of GWEN and Hell's precipice on monk, while playing Armored Core: Last Raven and Disgaea1 again. 3 n/Rt heroes (sosuke until i got livia), mhenlo, earth hench, 2 w hench. just click on a new mob every couple of minutes and go back to playing the other games.

Inner Salbat · Sep 08, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

As a monk in PvE you have to mash healing skills and make red bars go up. It's not exactly high-skill play. Some monks are better and understand concepts like preprotting and spotting targets, but the necessity for it really isn't there, which is a shame.

Um no there is more too it than that -way- more, if you don't put a PS on the right person at the right time and for the right reason you lose someone, if you don't Aegis at the right time your entire party combating some enemies will be dead in under 30 seconds, you need the reflexes of a ninja and the brains of Chuck Norris.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

that's not entirely true, I beat all of GWEN and Hell's precipice on monk, while playing Armored Core: Last Raven and Disgaea1 again. 3 n/Rt heroes (sosuke until i got livia), mhenlo, earth hench, 2 w hench. just click on a new mob every couple of minutes and go back to playing the other games.

Try that in hard mode and start vanquishing areas, I dares you.

Tyla · Sep 08, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

If the argument is that 7 heros would over power PvP then the solution is simple they shouldn't be in PvP in the first place or they should rename it too, PvPvE.

What? I'm for 7 heroes in PvE, and against the use of heroes in PvP except for HB.

@Damian: Because you're so fun to toy with, I guess I'll still reply to your posts made completely of stupidity and I find it highly amusing.

Frenzy Healsig Mending wouldn't be balance, that would be retardation because none of the requirements for winning are being met at all.

Allowing these gimmicks which take no skill to use because they don't reward skillful play to roam free does turn the game into a C-Space fest.

An example of skillful play is how said player uses Frenzy. It's a great skill that rewards skillful play and doesn't reward sloppy play at all. Bull's Strike and Distracting Shot are others. Incredibly powerful skills, but they do next to nothing if you don't get the goal and they have been wasted for 10 seconds.

JDRyder · Sep 08, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That maybe entirely dependent on what class you are playing, as a monk? you have zero chance to afk,

why are you going afk any way? are you going to go afk on other profs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

you have to be on your game 80% of the time any lapse of judgment or distraction and it's back to the resurrection shrine for you,

if missing 1 prot means your team is going to die, you missed more than 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

and god forbid that you happen to spawn at the shrine the enemy happens to be camping because you made an error in judgment call when pulling the mob in the first place,

that has nothing to do with the monk that has to do with being a noob and fighting next to it in the 1st place.

Venom200 · Sep 08, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

It has been said several time but I'm just going to say it again.

Henchie builds just don't cut it.

Kenagalaz · Sep 08, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

as far as the afking as a monk thing, it still works in HM in many places, you just have to be more careful not to pull more than one mob at a time and allow adequate additional afk time to allow energy recharge. with flagging and a bow, it's not that bad. (where as in NM you could pull 3 mobs at a time with no consequence). but most importantly afking NM gets you to outposts and gets you to armor crafters, elite skills, quest items and end game items, while afking HM doesn't really have any reasonable rewards that warrants even afking. (who really cares about farming titles, when life's full of other more fun things.)